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 The Work System [Please Read]

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Do you Support the Work System or want the Alternative?
Yes, it should not change.
14%
 14% [ 1 ]
No, it should change.
14%
 14% [ 1 ]
No, I want the Alternative.
71%
 71% [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 7
 

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PostSubject: The Work System [Please Read]   Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:47 pm

So.

The Work System, type up to 5k words, Get 5k VC if you type up to that many.

How many people honestly support this system? I ran some calculations on it and honestly, you'd be typing out quite a few words if you were to consistently run through this for the maximum amount of money possible.

There also comes the matter of sitting down and shelling out 5000 words for example for maximum output.

Is this system fine? Or would people rather have a system where say, you write from a range of words or from a minimum. [I'll just place like 1-2k words for example], and staff grade VC based on the quality and effort put into it.

What is the communities opinion on this? Please Post and vote in the Poll as well.
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PostSubject: Re: The Work System [Please Read]   Sat Mar 18, 2017 5:58 pm

I'm not going to vote just yet, since I have no idea at the moment. 5k can certainly be quite a lot to write...though, not sure I'd be aboard with what you suggest? I mean, no offense, but if we leave it to staff to decide who gets how much, it could very much come down to bias. Very easy to inspire people to cry and complain that they should have gotten more that time etc., and really, how does one back up their specific decision of how much pay one gets? It's completely subjective based on what one 'thinks' the words are worth, and I am not sure if that is really a good idea to let happen.

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PostSubject: Re: The Work System [Please Read]   Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:05 pm

Well Safi the intention is for staff to grade each thread fairly and within reason, I think if bias comes across it would become noticable. Like if someone constantly got high rewards but their writing was subpar for example with little justification behind it. The Intention is for people to be able to write within a reasonably short and regular minimum and more so promote quality of writing. It'd be graded on quality, work, and however actually detailed the work thread is.

Bias doesn't necessarily come across easily to begin with, as this type of system has occured on other sites, unless staffers as a large whole begin to favor say a specific person or a few people, then it isn't really going to happen. I'm not implying that is impossible however. As Bias is capable of existing regardless of whatever is graded.
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PostSubject: Re: The Work System [Please Read]   Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:07 pm

Personally I agree with Safi that grading how much words are 'worth' could be very subjective and bias and probably wouldn't work out that well and end up with a lot of arguments between people and people getting upset about why they got less than what they thought they should or why someone else got more than them, ect.

As someone who has written a full 5k work thread multiple times now, I must admit it is a lot to write but I tend to do it in small bursts over a couple days which makes it a lot easier to manage. Plus its essentially free money for just writing anyway, so it being easier to get seems kinda weird to me. And with every work thread I have done so far, as hard as it may be to eventually reach that 5k word count I'm always left super satisfied with myself that I earned that money with time and dedication. But I can see the point that not everyone has the time to write that much.

Even if a new system like that was introduced I'd personally like to ask if the old one could still be used if people wanted to as it would still be the way that I'd want to do work threads over being told if my words were worth anything or not. Especially as with my character Callie I purposefully write her threads like a child would as its IC so they usually aren't as good quality on purpose. (Which sounds like a stupid reason I know but shh).

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PostSubject: Re: The Work System [Please Read]   Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:08 pm

I'd like to point out something real quick:
http://newarcana.forumotion.com/t1898-from-then-to-now-killers-have-feelings-too

This is a topic with a lot of time and effort invested into it. It covers an incredibly wide range of events going from the very start of Ueitawa all the way to the beginning of his involvement in Ueitawa Part II. That being said, if this was a work thread in Endymion and Aburai was a player character, he would have only earned 3000 VC from all this. The post is 3,513 words long, 1,487 words away from the required amount of words to get 5000 VC out of your work thread.

To get the maximum amount of VC possible you need to write over a thousand words more than this entire topic for your work thread. Even if you do that, you'll get what's effectively chump change as a reward considering how easily obtainable VC is in Endymion (hell, this case file gives you 3000 VC for just participating in it).

All that being said, I'm of course in favor of changing the system. I'm willing to give the alternative a shot personally.

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PostSubject: Re: The Work System [Please Read]   Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:11 pm

Wolfie977 wrote:
Especially as with my character Callie I purposefully write her threads like a child would as its IC so they usually aren't as good quality on purpose. (Which sounds like a stupid reason I know but shh).

I believe you're confusing quality of writing with how good your grasp on English is. It's not a matter of writing essay-tier compositions that would make Shakespear swoon, quality is based on what makes for a good and interesting read. Now, actual grammatical quality factors into that (because, let's be honest, who enjoys reading a fucked up mess of jumbled up typos?), but it's not the main focus nor is it the idea behind this. Instead of being graded on how much you can write, instead you're graded on how interesting and engaging you can make the thread even in a short wordcount. Remember: if you make it too long, it's likely that it'll just be a bore to read anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: The Work System [Please Read]   Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:15 pm

Well, intention to doesn't mean it will turn out that way. Because. what is really 'quality' anyway in this particular area? Every character has a different job and all that. If someone has a char who doesn't even have an actual job and they have to BS random stuff for a work thread to get the money, wouldn't it be much harder for them to put out some quality work compared to someone who has a comfy job decided on that is easier to write for? I just think it isn't quite possible to grade everyone by usíng the same standards, and thus there would always be the possibility of people questioning why someone got more/less than them because of that.

Plus, I thought we weren't supposed to be strict about writing quality to begin with? Because if we suddenly are, then #RIP those few members that don't have great writing skills and all. We're allowing them to RP normally and all, so wouldn't it be a hit below the belt to pressure them with this instead? Not everyone is a master writer and can do beautiful solo topics easily.

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PostSubject: Re: The Work System [Please Read]   Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:16 pm

This plot already gives money out for free next to nothing, just by beating boss, completing side missions. Now lowering standards in work threads?

Instead of revamping the previous system you will need to make a balance between both. Work threads are work threads, you're working for the VC. The fact you can share the workload with friends makes it just as easy. Now of course there should be a quality standard to it aswell. But not everyone's first language is english, nor do we require anyone to be at a certain writing standard here. However if a member of staff wants to give "Tips" out to those who put alot of effort and quality in their work thread, then sure.
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PostSubject: Re: The Work System [Please Read]   Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:20 pm

Joyd wrote:
Plus, I thought we weren't supposed to be strict about writing quality to begin with? Because if we suddenly are, then #RIP those few members that don't have great writing skills and all. We're allowing them to RP normally and all, so wouldn't it be a hit below the belt to pressure them with this instead? Not everyone is a master writer and can do beautiful solo topics easily.

I don't see this as a problem, especially if feedback is given in the grading (and I mean constructive criticism, with options on how to improve). For one, if your writing quality is below average, then you can work on getting better. I don't see the need to be so competitive about this, honestly, it's a forum RP and our goal should in general be to improve as writers. Either way, I believe it's possible for people to improve, and while they do, they can write threads that give them money as well. Maybe they can write more of them in order to 1. gain more feedback and 2. keep up with the money other people who write higher quality posts are getting. Now if you're unwilling to get better and want to just sit silently in a comfy place where you're never expected to improve, well, that's on you.

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PostSubject: Re: The Work System [Please Read]   Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:24 pm

We are not elitist here, and anyone is allowed here no matter their posting abilities. If they wish to improve, we can give them that gentle push but we will not pass a system that hinders them. Especially younger members who are just getting into roleplay and aren't on that level yet. That's just end of story there, everyone starts somewhere.
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PostSubject: Re: The Work System [Please Read]   Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:26 pm

Philemon wrote:
We are not elitist here, and anyone is allowed here no matter their posting abilities. If they wish to improve, we can give them that gentle push but we will not pass a system that hinders them. Especially younger members who are just getting into roleplay and aren't on that level yet. That's just end of story there, everyone starts somewhere.

How is giving them VC for trying hindering them? They're encouraged to write and not only gain VC but also feedback on how to improve. I fail to see how this hinders them. If you don't have an elitist mindset, then you shouldn't care about who has the most VC, just that they get it and improve.

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PostSubject: Re: The Work System [Please Read]   Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:28 pm

I didn't really mean competition anyway. And while improvement is indeed a good goal to have in mind, it's probably not something that is on everyone's mind. Forum RP isn't equivalent to improving writing skills anyway. People RP for fun and to have an enjoyable way to pass time first of all, I would think. If they improve alongside that, then that's a nice plus for sure. Forcing people to go that route so they can actually get their money shouldn't be necessary. Not everyone is an achiever and wants to get opinions/criticism while also mourning they're getting less money because they need to go through that process. The person who truly cares about improvement could just ask someone to help them out and give them the feedback without it being a set system like that.

Regardless, I would probably agree with the idea of tips or something similar over completely basing the system on post quality. Some nice balance rather than one extreme, if nothing else.

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PostSubject: Re: The Work System [Please Read]   Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:30 pm

Joyd wrote:
I didn't really mean competition anyway. And while improvement is indeed a good goal to have in mind, it's probably not something that is on everyone's mind. Forum RP isn't equivalent to improving writing skills anyway. People RP for fun and to have an enjoyable way to pass time first of all, I would think. If they improve alongside that, then that's a nice plus for sure. Forcing people to go that route so they can actually get their money shouldn't be necessary. Not everyone is an achiever and wants to get opinions/criticism while also mourning they're getting less money because they need to go through that process. The person who truly cares about improvement could just ask someone to help them out and give them the feedback without it being a set system like that.

Regardless, I would probably agree with the idea of tips or something similar over completely basing the system on post quality. Some nice balance rather than one extreme, if nothing else.

No-one is forcing anyone to go this route to get their money. Like Philemon/Term (I don't even know who's using the account right now) said, there are plenty of other ways to get money that aren't this. This is for people who WANT to improve and for people who want to put their writing skills to use in something that's actually useful. If someone doesn't want to do either, they can join more missions during the times the people who do want to do this spend on their work threads. Simple as that.

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PostSubject: Re: The Work System [Please Read]   Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:32 pm

That's the thing though Term. If VC is so easily obtainable and is just practically being handed out, why make people put in so much of their time just to get 5k VC from these? Work threads are overwhelmingly obsolete in their current state and in the majority of cases aren't going to be worth it because the cons outweigh the pros to a ridiculous degree.

To be entirely honest, I'd be fine with work threads giving out barely anything, or even not giving out VC at all and just imparting a few SQ points or something else. The main thing I'd like to stress is that the system in place for this, whatever it may be, needs to be balanced; it should have the reward given be reflective of the amount of time and effort spent on the actual task.

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PostSubject: Re: The Work System [Please Read]   Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:45 pm

Well yes, but if they do decide to go that way because who knows, maybe there aren't any side missions that particular time period, or none that the person is interested in/can do due to factions, they would be auto-held up to that standard whether they want to or not if they really want to get some money. I would call it a passive force rather than active I guess, since while people do not have to go that route, if they for some reason wanted/needed to rely on it, they would have to abide by those quality rules.

Though yes, writing 5k words just for that isn't for everyone. I can write long posts, but to be honest? I would probably spend 4-7 hours of writing on a solo post that long. That is a lot of time for 5k VC imo, and I personally don't even have the motivation to do that kind of thing most of the time. It's enough that S.L.s and everything else begs for the time, but people have IRL lives too whether it is school/work or whatever else. It can be tough to fit in this as well unless you're a person who can write a lot really fast and not actually waste hours upon hours of their time on it. RPing is meant to be enjoyable, but I believe for many people, this would be a drag instead.

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