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Heya! I'm your friendly neighborhood Larsinny, a demon here to keep you updated on the current debacles going on within the site! Okay, maybe not debacles... Anyway! The Endymion Plot, our Third Main Plot, has started! We also have our previous plot's part two running next to it for Azores! If you're a new member looking to join the new plot, you will want to choose Endymion. However, if you're interested in our older plot, Azores, you may also join that one aswell. The choice is ultimately up to you! The Dungeon Master of the Azores plot is Grantus and the DM of the current Endymion plot is Philemon.

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 So I've been thinking..

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Philemon
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PostSubject: So I've been thinking..   Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:42 pm

Brainstorming, if you will.. about when key players go afk in dungeons. I'm starting to think aside from your like, battle skillset, players should also make a "support" skill set for when you're going to be away. Atleast your character can act as an NPC on the support bar and still assist the team if you have to take an absence and you have key skills that can help save a raid. I'm thinking of making this mandatory, so if you sign up for a dungeon and participate in a dungeon, if you disappear your character automatically falls into the supportive role.

Any thoughts on this? After all, it's ultimately up to you all and not me. Of course the support list should follow your main skill list aswell
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PostSubject: Re: So I've been thinking..   Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:45 pm

Honestly, this sounds like a very good idea. Maybe take like 3-4 Skills of their set as a Support set. I'm VERY much in favor of this. Makes me feel less like an arsehole for skipping people.

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PostSubject: Re: So I've been thinking..   Thu Jan 05, 2017 7:53 pm

That would honestly be great. But how are these support skillsets going to be made? I'm for allowing some of the existing battle skills to be used for the support. But sometimes, there are some builds that aren't exactly quite useful to be used as support, especially with some Tactical Support builds or some builds that are heavily passive-based. So what is to be done with those?

Are we going to allow people to have some freedom in making these support skillsets and then have them approved by staff? Or what?

Edit: If I may give my suggestion...

I say at present we have the current Persona ranking and as well as soul skills to have a continuous influence on how these support skillsets are formed

0% at any skillset are always a default dex attack with soulbounds or their guns or use consumable items they possess.
15% can be a Tier 1 skill
25% can be a Tier 1-2 skill
50% can be a Tier 1-2 skill
75% can be a Tier 1-3 skill
100% can be a Tier 1-4 skill

I have my worries where the NPC may have skill from their normal skillsets where they don't make great NPC support. Like Nebula for example. From what I understand, Support NPC's skills are usually active. If that's the case, then the disadvantage is put on characters who use a lot of passives in the first place.

But if I may suggest that we can have their applicable passives apply to the rest of the party, then that could alleviate the issue to some degree.


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PostSubject: Re: So I've been thinking..   Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:24 pm

The big question really is, what passive abilities are helping the entire party in the first place to be on a support list? The Auto-skills?
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PostSubject: Re: So I've been thinking..   Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:34 pm

It's really just the Auto-ma skills, Auto-Analysis, Healing Wave that are going to be anything useful to use for the skillset. Everything else is more focused on the individual member. I originally thought maybe the rest could just be applied to everyone, but then again that's pretty dumb. I need to lay off the beer.

Even so, with this little amount of passive skills that are anything applicable or useful for the support skill set for a team, it's going to disadvantage a number of teams if the player-turned-NPC is primarily stuck with a number of passives as I said before.

In the light of this, I'm admittedly hesitant to suggest we allow members to personalize support skill sets a bit more than the norm on the persona skill list. Like how you personalized Serenity's set for Belfry. But that's really up to you.

Edit: Or you could just make another skill list of skills in the Persona Skill List for those Support Skills alone as an option for Passive-heavy characters. With said skills based on the released support skills so far as another option for everyone. Other than using their existing skill set in battle to fill up their support skill set.

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PostSubject: Re: So I've been thinking..   Thu Jan 05, 2017 8:54 pm

I'll chime in since I have a point I'd like to lay out.

Why not allow the player to choose one passive (if applicable) and one (two without a passive) of their skills to use in the support role and then the person running the dungeon gives them the rest of the skills to balance it out. Ie not allowing them to just take Auto-Matarukaja, Healing Wave, and a SS that boosts their Enhance abilities. It'll keep things more balanced for the dungeon and the use of a support character and at the same time it'll be a draw back for the players to be like "Eh, no need for me to post cuz people can just do things for me for zero consequence!"

I think if we need to we can obviously randomize which skills they have on their set but I think that has the chance to completely screw a player over more than needed.

Another point is that we could simply make passives an active while in support mode. Ie turning an auto-ma skill into just a ma skill, or have the Support bar automatically go into the negatives at the beginning of the fight. Healing Wave could automatically be taxed every three turns and so on and so forth.

Just some ideas I thought I'd share. Get the blood pumping through our brains and all.
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PostSubject: Re: So I've been thinking..   Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:38 pm

I suppose we could do something like that. On one hand it seems interesting, but on another I am like I don't know. I understand the need to keep dungeon's going, but making a second skill set so that folk away for a bit can be used as a support npc?

I can see if it was for one, but what if like two or so are MIA? Would we have supports only? And who controls them? The DM, the leaders? I guess I am not quite understanding what is happening here. It seems like some sort of rule should be laid out for this or we'd have many just being support. I might be over thinking...

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PostSubject: Re: So I've been thinking..   Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:59 pm

Well, it's certainly better than ending up with only one active person and like 3 people MIA. Such can really skewer a dungeon at times, on top of making it slow if people are trying to wait on those missing guys.

I personally assume that the leader of the team would be controlling the supports (or whoever of the people that are left active is chosen as the leader then). That said, maybe we just need to make sure that having someone turn into a support NPC doesn't make them actually better than being a normal character? Since if done wrongly it could, due to the fact that the tension is just that and doesn't cost any SP or HP, eliminating the risk of running out as easily for example. Plus, working out how getting hit impacts them? Because a normal player goes down after their HP is gone, but if they turned to support, what would happen? Auto-KO after a few hits on them (which could happen pretty fast if the enemies have AoE's), or have them keep their entire stats with HP normally, in which case, would they be able to get healed or not? Do they get some EXP if they're just being NPCed? Etc. I suppose it could work if some good balancing is done there, and it helps the dungeons while not being so good that it would inspire people to prefer turning into NPCs over actively playing to reap some benefits.

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PostSubject: Re: So I've been thinking..   Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:04 am

I would assume they don't get exp period or at the very least a reduced amount. Like 25% maybe. Regardless everyone has said what i would have said. I do like the idea, the players should probably be picking the skills to put on support but not making up skills based on their own. If we need to redesign passives a little for use we can make a universal change to it, such as making invigorate a tiny recovery to SP or something. Itll in the end encourage people to come up with skills that can make them useful when they arent around. So in that respect im up to the idea of rewarding them a minimsl percentage of EXP. Whatever you think is best.

Edit: I sorta made up a gimmick in Azores 2 where NPCs instead of support-based skills had attacking based skills that relied on the percentages. They could be hit three times, but could not be revived (at least in my revision later on). They also had their own stats and the like. Perhaps that could be used for combat-oriented ones?

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PostSubject: Re: So I've been thinking..   Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:25 am

Let me clarify real quick. By choosing the rest of the skills, I'm not saying we create an entirely new skill set for them, I more so mean we choose from their provided skill set for their Support role. IE, if they have fire skills we can give them Agi instead of Agilao. Things along those lines, something to make becoming a support NPC a major drawback.

Like I said earlier, I think this'll discourage people from trying to become NPC Support mains, lack of a better word, and the likes.

I'm also under the assumption that while an NPC, they'll have the 3 hit rule where a heal will regenerate 1 hit for them. AoEs are meant to heavily counter Supports since they can get pretty dumb in bosses with consistent DPS.
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PostSubject: Re: So I've been thinking..   Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:07 am

To be clear I am not against the idea. I think the idea of having this option is good for dungeon. What I am seeking with my poking are those clear cut lines that will become clear with balancing it out and such we assume

I can see pulling from their current skills and making it weaker for support side. Or if we give them the choice to customize have them draw from a set of useful, but not so powerful skills, so folk won't be tempted to afk just to be support.

I am not sure how tension would play into this though or even if it should be used. I like the idea of stats being there because then there is cost being involved in using things and a point where they could potentially run out of power....

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PostSubject: Re: So I've been thinking..   Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:15 am

Eh, that's a red flag to use stats in my opinion. Using more than just the attacking stats makes them kinda more useful. Think about late game here, SP will be high and if we're nerfing their provided skills they'll deal hella damage more consistently than with Tension. Also, that means we'd have to make SP costs for auto skills and that doesn't sit well with me either. Tensions needs to be used, and how we handle Sp and Hp will simply be coming down to us balancing it.

Maybe for Hp, when they come back, they can have full hp if at all 3 hits, half at 2, and 1/3 when at 1 when they come back. Cuz, let's be honest, most heals will bring people to max or at least a safe spot all through the game.

Sp I dunno. Maybe have each spell used with tension (aside from passives) stack a number of percent, and when you come back from being a NPC, you loose that much Sp. Just an idea.
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