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Heya! I'm your friendly neighborhood Larsinny, a demon here to keep you updated on the current debacles going on within the site! Okay, maybe not debacles... Anyway! The Endymion Plot, our Third Main Plot, has started! We also have our previous plot's part two running next to it for Azores! If you're a new member looking to join the new plot, you will want to choose Endymion. However, if you're interested in our older plot, Azores, you may also join that one aswell. The choice is ultimately up to you! The Dungeon Master of the Azores plot is Grantus and the DM of the current Endymion plot is Philemon.

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 Defense Update

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Which Option is Preferred?
Option 1
60%
 60% [ 6 ]
Option 2
40%
 40% [ 4 ]
Another Option
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 10
 

AuthorMessage
Grantus



Posts : 5737
Join date : 2013-07-06
Age : 22

PostSubject: Defense Update   Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:42 pm

Alrighty. This is also an announcement to all members so they know well in advance. We are going to be testing the defense system and a likely change to it soon; namely changing how much you get or when you get it. The reason why the defense system could change is because looking ahead in the future, we will be seeing with the leveling system we have, that people in the 30s-40s will likely have maxed defenses. And if levels are supposed to be fairly easy to earn since the max is 99, having 60% at level 35 is a little insane. So we have come up with two possible changes to alleviate this:

1: Where defenses at every 12 only rise by 1% and not 2%

2: Where defenses still rise by 2%, but will only increase every time your HP/SP increase by 20-25.

Feel free to suggest other ideas if you have them, both ideas here have their pros and cons. The first idea means that you will get to keep the lower threshold, but you will naturally have a slower progression. The second option does raise the requirement but you still get to keep the increment. We will probably do something like a boss fight to test the idea before making it official. Feel free to talk about it here.


Last edited by Grantus on Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Maria



Posts : 1904
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Age : 22

PostSubject: Re: Defense Update   Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:02 pm

Staff on the skype chat should know my position on this by now. But I'll state it here to make this discussion more productive. I personally think that as far as Persona Rank Ups go, we don't need the additional 15 HP/SP since we have the level ups giving us 10 HP/SP anyway and it might alleviate the growth of defense rates.

But as Gran had stated to me, the enemies in Endymion are going to be tougher and it is going to necessitate its existence. This much I'll have to agree with.

Other than that, I'm going with Option 2. I like the 2% increase, personally. And by levels alone, it just requires at least 2 level ups per increase without factoring the allocation stat points.

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Shiina



Posts : 1896
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Age : 22
Location : Heaven

PostSubject: Re: Defense Update   Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:12 pm

1 on paper looks to be about as effective if 2 suggested the HP/SP increased happened every 24 points, but offers a more gradual progression instead. Doing some math first and foremost, though:

You gain 10 HP/SP every level, and with 1, you need 720 points in each to cap both Endurance stats. This is a fairly easy calculation, it means a person without any ranks in their Persona would cap their Endurance stats at Level 72. Most classes give out 135 points in both HP and SP through rank-ups, which would help towards the requirements so most would end up capping these stats after 585 points from levels, which is Level 59. Still not a bad level. Persona Users would cap these slightly faster, since Initial Personas give a total of 105 points towards HP and SP, which puts their requirements from levels at 480 points flat, so Level 48.

2 is fairly the same. By the minimum of 20 points, people will need a flat 600 points to cap their Endurance stats, and by the maximum of 25, it's again a flat 750. The reductions from ranks stay the same, so for the minimum, a non-PU will need 465 from levels if they're at max Rank, which is Level 47, and a PU will need 360, which is Level 36. That latter one is worrying, I suggest it be higher than Level 36 by far. At maximum, a non-PU will need 615 points from levels if they're at Max Rank, so Level 62, while a PU will need 510, so Level 51.

Either 1 or max 2 would be a good option, imo, but my personal preference goes to 1, because of its more gradual progression.

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Jerry



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PostSubject: Re: Defense Update   Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:20 pm

I do really like the first option more than the second, as it's a fairly simple solution. And why overcomplicate things? I can't say I have much else to add since the rest of my points have been made.

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Deshi



Posts : 1469
Join date : 2014-10-28
Age : 29
Location : In my own madness.

PostSubject: Re: Defense Update   Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:22 pm

The defenses are indeed something to watch for and for balance I am looking at option 2 rather than 1. I don’t think people will like a slow crawl upward, thus I think the bump in requirement will be helpful without penalizing the amount gained.

As for testing the system, I am always open to being a genuine pig to see if the system works or not. Just let me know what ya’ll wish to do.

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Lost



Posts : 1651
Join date : 2014-11-21
Age : 18
Location : Nowhere

PostSubject: Re: Defense Update   Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:11 pm

I personally prefer the second option over the first. While the first one has its more obvious balancing ratios, I feel like lowering the progression to one point makes the growth less significant and not as worth wild in the short term. This is a patch to be pointed towards making max endurance harder to get, and upping when you get the 2% seems better than just lowering the current increase.

In short, my vote is towards the second option.

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Shiina



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PostSubject: Re: Defense Update   Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:15 pm

I think people are seeing both options in the wrong light. Option 2 is just Option 1 but leap-frogging over a level. Walking two steps at half the speed will still get you to your destination at the same time as one step at normal speed.

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Joyd



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PostSubject: Re: Defense Update   Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:18 pm

Tbh, as Penny said....it's pretty much the same goddamn thing, assuming we would make option 2 be around  24 to make it twice. I don't see why would the latter be more appealing just because it's 2%. You'd have to wait for extra 24 points...while with the first one, you'd have extra 2% by 24 points as well, you'd just get it separate, 1% each 12 points. Same end result, really.

Personally, I'm largely neutral on this, as the differences are aesthetic for the most part.

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Grantus



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PostSubject: Re: Defense Update   Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:22 pm

Like Penny said, in the end they are the same thing. It's just what we in the end prefer, since it will hurt EVERYONE in the short run, since everyone will have a harder time getting defenses. Me personally I prefer option 1, since we still get them just as fast and since our levels increase at a nice rate, it would give us plenty of times to boost it and its an easier way to jot it down. But I will make an addendum: the only real points that will work with Option 2 is at least 24, otherwise people are still capping too early. Just a friendly reminder.
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Bernadette



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PostSubject: Re: Defense Update   Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:33 pm

I don't mind either

leaning to #1

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Azami Aihara



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Location : Chained to a rock by a fickle RNG god. Ow, my liver.

PostSubject: Re: Defense Update   Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:51 pm

I vote option 2 because reasons.

Will this new system be carrying over to Azores Part II? I presume not, but I wish to make sure.

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Shiina



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PostSubject: Re: Defense Update   Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:55 pm

We don't use levels in Azores 2, why would it?

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Azami Aihara



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PostSubject: Re: Defense Update   Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:58 pm

Penny wrote:
We don't use levels in Azores 2, why would it?

Exactly. That's why I assumed we aren't going to be carrying it over there. But I wanted to make sure anyway.

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Gabe



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PostSubject: Re: Defense Update   Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:02 pm

I had a whole thing typed and fourmotion ate my post, and it wasn't saved because i didnt need to save it. Here is the nutshell

Godai, my friend, hell no. I think that the 15 hp sp increase is a deterrent against massive item usage. I think even phil said that, it was to make us less reliable on them. i'm glad you seen the light lol

Penny, did you try doing the math for 3%. It really doesn't seem like alot and itll all add up decently.

Whats the problem here? Were capping too ealy? Sounds like a personal thing to me because that doesn't stop status ailments and instant death . We can't break the hard cap, which is 60%, the only person i saw break that is shun, and arguably, i think hierophant should break it too because of the arcana bonus. I can still see things going south even with max 60% the question of "how is your level supposed to look like with max defenses" is beyond me, because i can't see why it being further down is such a dramatic change worth mentioning and going for. When you say that,i hear something redundant like, the appropriate age i think you should graduate college, it comes off stupid to me.

not as crazy as you think, not crazy enough, doesn't hurt the game too much when you add in other things. For example, thread time lag, how may ic days would it take to even reach lv 35 with all things considering? A pretty long fucking time my friend, we play together, i like it, but at the same time, there is the possibility of losing a fight and not getting exp, or people dropping off the face of the earth randomly with no notice or just, long posting

no jabs or anything, at anyone...just this.... to get exp we have to fights, sometimes that involves dungeon crawling and missions oor whatever, taking into consideration of thread lag , realistically speaking, the road to lv 35, is a long fucking time. Its insane gran but were not reaching that as quickly as you think

OOC: My stance is option 2 with 3%, if that's changed, i'll go with two. Right now i'll hold onto my vote and see what other people say. Which is what i think everyone should do instead of voting right away. But hey, just an opinion
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Joyd



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PostSubject: Re: Defense Update   Wed Jul 27, 2016 4:09 pm

I'd say it depends, tbh. InRP, it's only day 2 nighttime, and we already have people who will likely reach level 5/6 by the end of it. And we didn't even do all that much. If the intensity of the plot keeps up, I can see us gaining levels pretty fast if we look at it from IC time standpoint.

And well, it is kinda odd that when you have a max of 99 levels...you'd have max endurance at 35? That's not even halfway to the end. Besides, enemies are sort of geared towards our levels, so I would think it would get taken in consideration that we don't have extra high defenses anymore. Balancing is always done.

Ailments and Light/Dark have always been its own category, tbh. Our defenses never mattered for those in the first place, so not sure how are they even a point in this discussion though.

I can see how it can seem like an annoying nerf, but tbh..at least it gives us incentive to work harder? And it gives more relevance to defense buffs like Rakukaja. They would at least mean something if people don't max defenses fast.

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